[Trollbabe]un solo conflitto,tanti nemici

[Moreno Roncucci]

(Is this what the "slowdown" tag is for?)

Yes, Ron: with the "slowdown" tag, nobody can post more than a single post every day in a thread.

For now, I am not adding the tag to the thread, because I am trusting people to listen to your request even without that. (I hope)

In Italiano now:
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In Italiano ora:

Ron ha chiesto di attendere la sua risposta, che non ha avuto il tempo di postare immediatamente. Direi di sospendere per il momento la discussione e aspettare, perchè ha detto che deve fare anche alcune osservazioni sulle risposte (è inutile quindi discuterle prima che le commenti). Non ho messo il tag "Slowdown" perchè si tratta appunto di attendere la sua risposta, non di rallentare tutto il thread.

[Ron Edwards]

Hello,

Thanks for waiting. I think I'm going to present a few points in a certain order and see if they help.

1. Presenting an opponent at a bigger Scale than the trollbabe means that she cannot defeat it. So if the seven trolls are presented as a single foe, she cannot beat it. If she tries, and rolls, successfully, then the GM must narrate that success only at her Scale, and what happens at the bigger Scale is completely under the GM's control.

Player's conflict statement: "I fight them! I want to slay them!"

Roll: trollbabe wins.

GM narration: "You easily slay the first one to reach you. The others grab you, disarm you, and hold you captive. What do you do?"

2. When confronted by multiple foes (again, presuming this means the group is higher than the trollbabe's Scale), the player may name a subset as her opponent in order to fight at her Scale. But that still means the GM has full authority over what happens at the higher Scale and therefore would look a lot like #1 above. Remember, just because the player says, "I fight the first troll!" doesn't mean the other six stand there like dummies, waiting their turns. If she succeeds, OK, she beat a guy. But simultaneously, the others grab her, disarm her, and hold her captive.

Therefore my point is that saying, "I fight each one, at my Scale, in turn" is a non-viable tactic. This is not Dogs in the Vineyard. You do not exclude external forces from the fight in order to resolve it.

3. As pointed out earlier, it is often useful to see what the player really wants the trollbabe to do. Let's say that she wants to kill the chief of a tribe, and seven warriors stand in her way. In that case, it is perfectly viable for the player to say, "I kill the chief," as the goal. The rules allow that! The guards cannot stop it! This is very important - it's 100% different from ordinary role-playing strategic situations, in which putting those seven guys there would form a barrier to protect the chief. She can in fact try to kill the chief, seven guys or no seven guys, and since the life of a single NPC is at her Scale, that's what the roll is about.

Now, granted, again, the GM has this group of seven guys (higher than her Scale) there in the scene. So what they do to her is the GM's job (grab her, disarm her, capture her). But since the conflict was called and the goal is at her Scale, the chief's life is now in question - and the GM cannot stop that.

I hope that helps. Please let me know.

I haven't addressed every individual poster because that would be tedious and I think - or I hope - that this presentation will cover all the issues.

Best, Ron

[Antonio Caciolli]

thanks Ron, as usual you are really clear


I would fix only one question: could the GM could say also that the TB is injured or captured (in the case the player kill the chief, winning the conflict, but the other will grab her since the scale is higher as in the example)?


I'm asking (adding the issue of possible wounds) since Moreno in post 10 stated that if the player wins the conflict the TB cannot be stopped or injured (as in the case he failed one or two rolls)


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I hope my english is understandable 

[Moreno Roncucci]

Antonio, in my reply I lazily used "captured" as the same as "helpless", but it isn't the same thing.  In Ron's example, the captured trollbabe still isn't helpless (she can declare a social conflict, because she is still able to talk, for example).

Seeing that the GM's duty is to show the trollbabe at her best when she wins ("a very good show" I thinks it's written on the manual about what she get when she win in a  conflict with a goal too big for her scale), I think it's a matter of judgment about what is better for the trollbabe, to flee or to be captured after having fought valiantly. I am used to players who almost always would prefer to flee, so I assumed this in my replies, but it's true that for other players be captured would be more "heroic" and preferable.

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Antonio,

The GM has no ability to say that the trollbabe is injured under the circumstances I've described. The only way a trollbabe gets injured is through the sequence of re-rolls.

Regarding being captured or grabbed (in this way), this is a circumstance but not necessarily as drastic as it sounds. By the rules, the trollbabe is uninjured and undefeated. The player may still name conflicts at any time. Such a conflict will only be problematic, in terms of Scale, if the opposition to the stated goal is above her Scale. If it is not, then the goal is entirely possible. Thinking in these terms is the essence of the pulp hero.

It is really up to the player to decide whether he or she will batter the trollbabe against the impossible, constantly over-estimating her own Scale, but achieving Scale-appropriate goals inside that context; or instead state powerful, Scale-appropriate goals which yield triumph within what appear to be larger-Scale circumstances. But it is in fact up to the GM to enforce the limitations and consequences of the Scale concept throughout play, without fail. Never feel sorry for the player and let them do inappropriately higher-Scale goals. You will be ruining one of the dynamic and productive features of the system.

Best, Ron

[Fealoro]

Thinking in these terms is the essence of the pulp hero.

kudos!

This sentence and your post do explain really well the matter.

[vanphanel]

  @Moreno:obviously,the trollbabe had number 9,and at the third troll dead i suggested the "destroy the sacred tree" option.
 
 @Ron:first of all,thank for your support and for your help in understanding a game so simple and so hard at one time.yes,you probably hit the point:facing a group,which in this case is at a larger scale,is not like facing,just to say,a dragon.
 In fact a group of people,if not involved wholly in a conflict,can always act separately,whether a dragon can not.This means,for the dm,six or more people to guide in a conflict which they are not a part of...and i thought these people were not able to grab the tb unless she had lost her conflict. On the contrary,they CAN grab her,or capture her…so,the choice between the tb fleeting away after the murder of the chief and the trollbabe captured from his fellow belongs entirely to the dm,and to the story written until that moment.
Simple,clear.
Thank you,folks…..