Autore Topic: [Circle of Hands] Crosses, bobs and Waves... che sono?  (Letto 1584 volte)

Pippo_Jedi

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Ciao,
a pag 75 del manuale Ron parla di Crosses, bobs and waves dicendo che ne ha parlato estensivamente in un supplemento di sorcerer e poi spiega qualcosina a riguardo... ma non ho capito decisamente una minchia su cosa siano o perlomeno ho il fortissimo sospetto che ci sia molto altro perchè poi confronta la cosa con i Bang e dice che CoH non è un gioco "bang-oso" il che, avendo letto il manuale e conoscendo i bang, mi torna... ma non conoscendo le prime tre cose non capisco bene tutto il discorso...

Un'anima pia che mi spiega i tre termini e li correda con un esempio di gioco?

 :)
Pippo_Jedi aka Filippo Zolesi

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Re:[Circle of Hands] Crosses, bobs and Waves... che sono?
« Risposta #1 il: 2017-09-03 18:43:21 »
Anima Pia? A me? Ehi, piano con le offese!

Oltretutto in fatto che non conosci i termini ti smaschera: non hai mai letto Sex and Sorcery! (pubblicato nel 2003 e oggi raccolto in "Sorcerer: Sword, Sould and Sex"), nonostante abbia detto e ridetto da anni che per conoscere i termini quei volumi sono fondamentali!

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Da "Sex and Sorcery" di Ron Edwards , pagina 89 e seguenti:

Second, during play, right from the very first minute, step it up. Nothing about playing bass is passive or boring. Start role-playing those Kickers, or just post-Kicker, with great pressure and with lots of new material that you’re ready with. Practice and master the following techniques: Bangs, Crosses, Weavings, Openings, and Bobs. I’m borrowing freely from both boxing and quilting for these terms, with no particular need for an exact analogy across the hobbies.

Bangs have already been described in the previous Sorcerer books.
The gm does well to bring a list of potential Bangs, a bandolier as I like to call it, into a given session. At this point, they remain merely potential. Some will get used, some won’t, and some will get used in ways you didn’t anticipate.
Since Bangs don’t exist until they happen in-play, don’t over-value them before you decide actually to use them. The usual problem is over-preparing in terms of when and how to apply them, rather than remaining “at the ready” and using player-character actions as cues. When you use a Bang, remember that its point is provide at least one player with a real decision.

Crosses refer to elements or results of one scene being used in another scene. For instance, consider character A interacting with some npc A in scene A, during which npc A storms out of the scene. There you are, role-playing with character B in scene B, and npc A comes stamping and cursing into scene B. He might be completely in the background, or he might intrude, it doesn’t matter – you have a Cross. Crosses may also include indirect effects, such as calling attention to the vapor-trail or crater left by actions in scene A during the playing of scene B; such things are Crosses when different player-characters are present in the two scenes.

Essinal, the unhinged court mage, has made herself unwelcome to the Chil-dren of the Miirun court, and a fair horde of them is looking for her in the spooky halls of the palaces in the Citadel. Meanwhile, Zyzass, the assassin, is engaged in a mutual, subtle stalking-hunt with the assassin who’s been slated to kill her, Shrekt’Ka.
Here comes my Cross: Zyzass encounters the Children, who speak to her regarding a “buzzy lady,” whom they perceive to have hurt their mother.
When Shrekt’Ka and Zyzass meet, she happens to make her Lore roll regard-ing his Possessor’s Telltale, a buzzing undertone to his voice.
(Remember? I’d decided that Shrekt’Ka was possessed too, by Zett, a demon very much like Girett.)
Therefore, not only were characters’ physical paths Crossed, but among-player information was Crossed as well. Zyzass knew nothing about the two buzzy-voiced Possessor demons, but as of this event, all the players now did.


Crossing maintains the author-audience relationship with one another, regardless of which character is on-stage at the moment, and generates all sorts of communication among players, which the characters do not have to understand.

Weavings refer to bringing separate conflicts toward one another, as well as intensifying the conflicts toward climax. At its most extreme, Weaving may involve snap changes to the gm’s concept of what’s going on, but more often, it’s a matter of making npc decisions and delivering the consequences of those decisions. I like to call early Weaving “spiking” the Kicker, which is to say, nearly any Kicker involves persons besides the player-character, so whatever they do next constitutes a Weave. Weaving can also involve some time and space manipulation, especially in terms of when a given player-character enters a current scene.

I next focused on Essinal, hitting her with blandishments from Krisst and bullying from Nilzaa – revealing not only their coup-agenda, but also showing that their alliance was falling apart. This is Weaving: tightening things, putting pressure on Essinal’s player to move to a decision-point. I’m working with the two Possessor demons being pretty spunky at this point, and musing about a complex Will conflict among the two conspirators, the two demons, and Essinal.

Openings refer to opportunities for the players to contribute – not merely to react, but to suggest primary actions that define new conflicts and even new scenes. In other words, players can Weave too. In fact, players are much better than most gms think at managing “coincidence” to keep all the in-game decisions phrased and justified within the characters’ frame of reference. As long as the gm provides Openings, the players will bring their characters together in terms of effect and story, if not necessarily in terms of grouping-up or teaming-up.

I decided to turn the next events over to the players, just letting the player-character movements (”who they want to talk to”) decide the next scenes.
As it happens, the players essentially engineered a meeting between Essinal and Shrekt’Ka, which is to say, deviating from and effectively canceling my tentative musing regarding a savage showdown between the two assassins.
As a rule, I stick to the principle that, after a Weave, an Opening is usually the best option.


Bobs refer to delaying, belaying, or denying various things or events; “keeping secrets,” or inserting “rests.” Real-life fighting, music, and sex all teach us the same lesson, which is to say, once in a while, chill. Not all in-game actions must frenetically drive toward a climax. The goal of a Bob is not to stonewall, but rather to pace and to permit everyone to enjoy all of the Weaving so far, as well as giving everyone time to consider what to do next. Bobbing can apply to one player at a time, for instance in order to give another player an Opening, or it can apply to the entire group, including the gm. Sometimes resting all the action as someone role-plays a bard singing a pretty song is the best way to pump up the action when it hits again.
Bobs are especially useful to allow players to express details about their characters – what they do when nothing is bustin’ down the walls or when no horrible secrets are unfolding before their eyes. One of my favorites in this particular story was simply Essinal getting a haircut and a makeover from some servants, but that came well after the sequence I’m currently using for examples.

Before the characters finally all faced one another, Essinal confronted her Possessor demon to come clean about its doings. I had Girett, the demon, shut up like a bear trap: my Bob. This was partly due to roll results (the demon won the Will contest), but it was also just right for letting me think a bit about what would happen when the two Possessors come face to face.
I was also listening to my own non-verbal creative instincts – an idea was itching at me, but I wasn’t sure what. When this happens, a Bob is always recommended.


Some role-playing groups place the responsibility for all these things on the gm during all points of play. However, in playing Sorcerer, the gm does well to concentrates on Bangs, Crosses, Bobs, and Openings, and sooner or later the players turn those Openings into Weavings, which themselves evolve into further Bangs.

So next up, Zyzass brought Shrekt’Ka, possessed by Zett, to Essinal, possessed by Girett. And wham, the idea itching at me revealed itself: the demons are in love! Ha! I exulted inwardly and called for Will contests, which both hosts lost – and the two human characters hurled themselves into one another’s arms, necking furiously.
Until that moment, I was pretty tentative about the two demon characters, and I’d given no thought at all to Shrekt’Ka aside from his potential confrontational role toward Zyzass. Giving the players the Opening described earlier acted as a springboard for me, creating a wonderful Bang.


Looking at the session from which the above example is taken, it’s impossible to tease apart just who presented “story” for anyone else. Who was the author? All of us. Who were the audience? The same. Using the techniques described here allows me to rely on prep when I need to, and on inspiration when it hits, without the two getting into one another’s way.
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Pippo_Jedi

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Re:[Circle of Hands] Crosses, bobs and Waves... che sono?
« Risposta #2 il: 2017-09-04 01:30:02 »
Citazione
Oltretutto in fatto che non conosci i termini ti smaschera: non hai mai letto Sex and Sorcery! (pubblicato nel 2003 e oggi raccolto in "Sorcerer: Sword, Sould and Sex"), nonostante abbia detto e ridetto da anni che per conoscere i termini quei volumi sono fondamentali!

Mai sostenuto di aver letto o giocato Sorcerer! Ho da tempo la politica di cercare di evitare di accumulare manuali di giochi che so che difficilmente riuscirò a giocare. L'ho presa tempo fa per farmi passare "la manualite" del dover comprare il nuovo splatbook di questo o quello. Preferisco cercare di provare i giochi e poi nel caso comprare il manuale, come ho fatto ora per CoH...

Grazie per il copia/incolla, mi sembra di aver capito un po' meglio adesso le cose... ci rimugino un po' sopra e poi nel caso ti faccio altre domande a riguardo.  :)
Pippo_Jedi aka Filippo Zolesi

Tags: CoH Circle of Hands