Gente Che Gioca > Sotto il cofano
[Inglese] Gaming texts, creator vision and poor instructions
Rafu:
You're making a whole lot of assumptions, Moreno. Be assured that I'm not "elevating" myself to any status whatsoever, nor making any assumption about knowing how to play game A making you better at playing game B or whatever — nope.
On the other hand, you do really strike me (and this last post of yours especially reinforces this) as being awfully fixated on learning from texts (and only rulebooks at that) when you have so many other options available to you: such as learning from dialogue, from practice, from tutoring, from texts which are not the primary rules source, etc.
(And, to further stress that I'm not driven by those assumptions you're so upset about, let me clarify that I do really mean "learning how to play each game in its own merits", not "learning to roleplay" like there was only one way, ok?)
Fealoro:
I'll be honest, usually I don't like how Moreno's answers or posts ;) but this time I second both his posts and opinions (maybe it's the language barrier lol)
I, a very less skilled rpg player than Moreno, found very difficult to learn to play DitV, even after reading Universalis. I found much more straighforward Apocalypse World (even if I had to read twice before start to understand it) and enjoyed it much more.
But now I'm quite afraid to start to play other rpg with the same point of view, because it's the way I learned.
So the bottom line is, the more and the better you explain of what you think your game should be played, the less difficult is to me use your rules instead of mine.
my2c
EDIT about Rafu point of view (I answer even if is a question for Moreno, I hope it is not a problem, and even if I don't know if I understand well your idea) I would prefer a lot to learn to play from texts, otherway my playing experience would be strongly limited by my real life possibilities.
Mattia Bulgarelli:
I think this thread needs a bit of direction. I mean, a better-defined purpose.
Moreno, could you please narrow down the scope and the purpose of this thread, stating it in 2-3 lines of text?
I believe this will help us to focus on what's the matter we should be commenting on. ^_^
Mr. Mario:
--- Citazione da: Rafu - 2011-06-20 23:42:36 ---On the other hand, you do really strike me (and this last post of yours especially reinforces this) as being awfully fixated on learning from texts (and only rulebooks at that) when you have so many other options available to you: such as learning from dialogue, from practice, from tutoring, from texts which are not the primary rules source, etc.
--- Termina citazione ---
That's not how it works. People are usually willing to reach for this stuff (each one of your examples is quite more difficult to get than game texts, and is almost never available at the gaming table) only when they find the text lacking. In the worst cases, texts are so bad one doesn't even realize you're doing something wrong, and therefore feel no need to look for other sources.
If to play a game well I have to buy it, then read about it in a forum, then send emails to the author, then talk about it at conventions, then look for additional material not from the author, there's a good chance I'm never going to buy the game in the first place.
I second everything Mattia said, and I definitely subscribe as one who needs good teaching text. I'm growing to hate that people who get excited playing a game with me at a convention (or the other way around) can't find in the game text at home the means to replicate that level of enjoyment.
Mattia Bulgarelli:
--- Citazione da: Rafu - 2011-06-20 23:42:36 ---On the other hand, you do really strike me (and this last post of yours especially reinforces this) as being awfully fixated on learning from texts (and only rulebooks at that) when you have so many other options available to you: such as learning from dialogue, from practice, from tutoring, from texts which are not the primary rules source, etc.
--- Termina citazione ---
Yes, we in this forum have a lot of means to learn every single game correctly.
That's because we are an already selected bunch of people: we are the ones willing to spend their time going deeper into the games.
(This doesn't mean, of course, we're better than anyone else. For example, a train modelist could be as dedicated to his hobby as we are. Or we can think of Magic: The Gathering players: rules update every 3 months or so. O_o; )
But well-written games can be:
1. enjoyed by more people
2. better enjoyed by the SAME people
I'll give you a real-life example of point 2: my gaming group.
Before "Ron Edwards broke my group" (see the T-shirts: I mean "by traumatically leaving my gaming group parpuzio-less all of a sudden, causing great distress HAVOC in it"), I was the one and only GM.
Then, now we have another person (female!) who ENJOYS being the Producer in PTA, and other people are willing (or at least less shy) to take on the manual and see how the game works.
Now, this is not Heaven: in my gaming group AND in my gaming club there's a lot of shyness: RPGs are still considered "hard to read and understand".
This is a prejudice we have to nuke to the ground, and I feel it's strictly intertwined with the belief that one should "be a GM (as in: in his life)" instead of "doing the GM for this game".
I hope I was clear in what I meant, I'm not sure... O_o;
EDITS: grammar and spelling. -_-;
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