Hi Jiituomas!
The scream you probably heard from there is my frustration in not being able, obviously, to make you understand the point of my critiques.
Let's see them one at the time.
1) "too much liberty"? No. Really, no. I said that the players has too little liberty. The characters felt as a straitjacket, with no space for personalization (apart from the name), more depth, or any way to portray him in a personal manner.
Let's quote from my character sheet (in Italian, I don't have the english version):
"Hai sempre avuto un talento naturale nel manipolare le persone, trasformandole in oggetti. Fin da piccolo hai sempre fatto in modo che i tuoi genitori e i tuoi quattro fratelli facessero esattamente ciò che desideravi. Al termine della scuola superiore ti sei trasferito a Bologna per iscriverti alla facoltà di scienze farmaceutiche. Consideravi il tuo interesse nei farmaci come la naturale estensione della tua abitudine di modificare il comportamento degli altri.
Hai partecipato a un incontro dei Liberati per scherzo, aspettandoti di divertirti a far rivoltare alcuni di loro contro il loro stesso credo; ma sei stato anche tu completamente rapito dal carisma di Timoteo. Non era manipolabile, eppure appariva completamente sincero. In breve sei diventato un membro attivo nel movimento e un fervido credente nelle sue dottrine. Sei diventato il miglior reclutatore del gruppo, e questo ti ha portato un notevole rispetto.
La morte di Timoteo è stata la causa dello scioglimento della setta ed essenzialmente la rovina della tua vita. Hai interrotto gli studi e abbandonato i vecchi amici: non c’era nulla a cui tornare, solo un senso di vuoto che hai iniziato a riempire con le droghe. Prima ci fu l’alcool, e poi roba molto più forte. Ora utilizzi regolarmente droghe pesanti, che ti paghi fornendo le tue conoscenze farmaceutiche ad alcuni spacciatori. Non hai mai terminato gli studi, ma lavorando duro hai imparato tutto quello che ti serve sapere sulle sostanze chimiche.
Oggi sei qui capire cosa è successo veramente. Timoteo fu un truffatore o un folle? Oppure era tutto vero? E la cosa più importante: Timoteo è riuscito a manipolarti?
Non hai famiglia, e non hai nessun legame al di fuori del mondo della droga. Tutte le tue “relazioni” finora sono state solo scopate occasionali, nulla di più. Non sai se credi ancora in Dio oppure no.
Sei rimasto una persona molto loquace, anche se nel tuo modo di parlare è apparso un tono sarcastico e un po’ cattivo."
It already contain my complete history, my motivations, my priorities, my game objectives, my approach to life, religion and sex. It leaves NOTHING for me to fill as a player. Even the portrait of the character, as an Actor, is already fixed: "Sei rimasto una persona molto loquace, anche se nel tuo modo di parlare è apparso un tono sarcastico e un po’ cattivo.". It tell me the tone I have to use in play, how much I have to talk, etc.
Let's be clear: this is not play, this is WORK. It's the work of an actor that is portraying YOUR character, the character you fully created but I have no input into, on a stage. I could not feel any contact with my character because I could not put anything of mine into him.
And it's for this reason that I think that game work with people who don't know more "narrativist" games: because they are used to this: to play these kind of theatrical characters with no personal input or motivation. But when a player has more experience (or ANY experience) with a more proactive and personal style of play... he ask "Can I do More than this in this game?"
A so we go to the next problem...
2) "Murk": you misunderstood the meaning of the term. It doesn't mean "with no GM direction". It mean "with unclear rules and procedures", it mean playing in a "mother may I" way, for example.
For people used to playing already-made character in GM-written stories (as "Serpente di Cenere" is, after all: all the story is already happened, what you play is a later chapter with character already changed), there is no problem in it with murk, because they don't even suspect that you can do more in a game. They play the same game they always played, with no question. But people who have played games with more player's freedom, where, for example, I could have created other characters to talk about, or I could have ignored a part of the written characterization, the question "how the hell do you play this game" is OBVIOUS. Because we DON'T ALWAYS PLAY IN THE SAME WAY.
The answer, as far as I know, that Serpente di Cenere give (or, at least, the one we got when I played it) was simply "Murk", no information whatsoever. (If the GM was still present I would have hounded him with questions NOT about "what I have to do in your story" but "how much can I change this already-written story to suit my tastes?". But Andrea is a firm believer in the "You play, I go to the Bar" Game mastering method and did leave us alone to play... )
And yes, if the previous problem (Characters as a straitjacket for the players) is a problem only for my actual game preferences (I don't like playing in the GM story anymore...), a murky game IS bad game design. I should know, playing the game, if I can add facts to the fiction or not, and how.
Third, and this is a internet communication problem and not a game problem... I can't really see how can you still insist that my problem with the game was the lack of a "strong GM vision", after we talked about it in person and by e-mail. I made you the example of my preferred LARP, "Doubt" (for us italians is a Larp), where the GM has no control even on the characters who are present in the story, and this is the COMPLETE description of the two protagonists:
"Tom and Julia are two actors who love each other. Both on stage and off stage"
I think it's at least disingenuous, this continued misinterpretation of critiques, and border on the use of Straw-mens to cover the actual problems of the game.
